Introduction: In this "Long Talk", Lao Luo patiently answered 200 questions raised by Luo Zhenyu. Regarding his transition from teacher to entrepreneur, he talked about his development process, the problems he faced when starting a business, his understanding of Hammer and his future development plan. Let’s take a look at the content of this unprecedented nine-hour conversation.

Luo Zhenyu: Suppose there is a middle-aged man, he is 35 or 36 years old. He suddenly opens the door of the office and says, Mr. Luo, I have great talents, but I have a bad temper. I want to start a business. . What advice would you give him?

Luo Yonghao: I think there are two situations when people decide to start a business. One is that he thinks he is suitable for starting a business, or he wants to make more money, and the other is It’s because he has ideals. It doesn’t matter whether he makes money or not. It doesn’t matter what kind of fame or fortune he has. He just wants to accomplish this and come back after he becomes a prostitute. These two are completely different. The first one is based on a rational thing, and the second one is not about the consequences for him, but about doing it.

If I meet such a person and ask me for my opinion, there are two types of questions he asks. One is the rational and professional part. I will tell him everything I know to help him judge the matter. Secondly, in my opinion, if it is his dream and it must be realized no matter what, I will encourage and support it unconditionally.

Luo Zhenyu: I am particularly impressed by why this era is an era of entrepreneurs. The allocation of open resources in society has abundant possibilities. If you have one strong point, society will naturally put other shortcomings into consideration. Board complement. Have you tried to make up for your shortcomings?

Luo Yonghao: Of course, you always find others to make up for it. You must not make up for things you are not good at yourself. The past 40 years of your life have proven that you are not good at doing certain things, and now you are destined to be a dead end if you deliberately make up for those things in order to run a business.

What kind of person was I before I started a business? I had to pay my monthly utility bills only when the water and electricity were cut off, and my phone bill was paid when the phone was shut down. I later solved the problem through marriage. If you look at enterprises based on this principle, ask others to do things that you are not good at doing well, instead of forcing yourself.

I made a mistake. When I was doing English training, I had a bad temper, and I was more exposed when I was anxious in the office. However, when I was working in a business, especially doing English training, I would get angry in the office for twice a week. Three times, so I was very anxious about how to solve this problem. Then I went to see those who are always very gentle in dealing with others. Entrepreneurs in Taiwan are all like this. I watched how they dealt with problems and handled things. After studying for a long time, it was very bad. It even made our colleagues feel Creepy. I'm very troubled by this.

I asked Feng Tang, who is a friend of mine and also from McKinsey, and he said that it is completely unnecessary. To succeed in a business, you only need to do six or seven things that you are good at, and just find others to fill in the rest. Don’t think about completing all 12 items to build a business.

Take bad temper as an example. Your bad temper is a shortcoming. It is necessary for you to try to learn to control and respect others, but it is not necessary to turn yourself into a Li Kaifu.

Luo Zhenyu: As a CEO, when you are controlling this company, what are the three most important things?

Luo Yonghao: It is similar to all companies, looking for money and finding people. , determine strategic direction, the most important to an enterprise are these three items.

I am not good enough at changing money. A friend said that you got a bargain but still behaved well. You, a crosstalk actor, went to the technology world, cheated, and raised 1 billion yuan. However, upon careful review, we are not a very strong company in terms of capital operations and financial operations. The people who have raised money are other strong players, which is why investors have misconceptions.

I have gained some experience in finding people in the past two years. In the first three years, I didn’t put much effort into finding people. It was very amateurish. I hired a human resources director to deal with people below the manager. The director started especially In the early days, I was all on my own. I didn’t have a bunch of vice presidents at the time, so I had to put a lot of effort into finding myself. Because I have some mild social anxiety, I always had some concerns when going out to meet strangers, make friends, and eat. I did a great job in the early days. Difference.

Third, the general direction is clear, and it is necessary for enterprises to pay attention. However, at the same time, if your main business is not monetized so quickly and ideally, you must find a way, because with the ability of your main business to operate , if you go to a relatively easy field and generate some profits to subsidize your long-term development strategy and core business, this is completely possible.

But in the early days, we did not do well enough in these aspects and were relatively lazy. I was diligent in tactics but lazy in strategy. Looking at it this way, to this day, we have not done very well in these three aspects and have failed. From the autumn of last year to now, 40% to 50% of the energy has been spent on poaching people. These things should have been done long ago. What was bad about these things was finding people, finding money and setting strategic direction. These three things were not done well in the first few years. I should find a good CFO, one who has the same temperament as us, is strong in ability, and has the same philosophy. In terms of strategic direction, it is difficult for us to monetize our main business. We should do something to make money and subsidize it. We will do it this year. We will have some products other than mobile phones this year.

Luo Zhenyu: The CEO's working time is divided into "Wartime CEO" and "Peace CEO". What is the proportion of your time arranged in these two areas?

Luo Yonghao: I don't know. Do you understand correctly? I have a feeling that the vast majority of startup companies, at least in the first few years, are "war-time CEOs" rather than "peace-time CEOs". Our senior executives from some large companies are all founders and wartime CEOs. ?A CEO in peacetime? A person who is at a very high level and is not short of money. This kind of person who starts a business with a golden key may be able to take care of both of these two things very well at the beginning. Other companies don't seem to do the second thing very well. Well, as far as I know, we are not doing well here.

Luo Zhenyu: Will you do important but not urgent things?

Luo Yonghao: For example, our operating system will discuss cooperation with external teams. When we cooperate, we actually output a lot, but they output relatively little to us. I am still willing to do it, and there are some colleagues. I don’t understand either. I want to do this for long-term development. If there is no shortage of money, I hope to make it completely open source and release it. If it is not open source, they will not dare to use it. If I open source it, my competitors will use it. I occasionally do some things, but survival is very tiring now, so I don’t care about these things. .

Luo Zhenyu: Idealism is an ethereal thing. How do you define it?

Luo Yonghao: Making money is a by-product of creation, and it must be pursued in essence. People will say that Amazon has not made money for so many years. Isn’t this company profitable? This company is a bad company. I don’t think it is right.

I think the value of a business is not only reflected in the profit of real money. Let me give you an example. Amazon continues to develop at today’s speed, and every financial report of the system is a small loss. You Do you think this enterprise has value? I think it is valuable and beneficial to society.

I think why our company must always be idealistic and have pursuits after making money. I understand that a good company is based on money. Money is a foundation. Above money, there is something higher. pursuit, but this is just my wish. If this company no longer controls the company, what is the use of me talking about it.

Luo Zhenyu: What is money? For us entrepreneurs, it is a progress bar of self-growth that can be seen outside. It is a result and a scale. How much does the turnover change? Valuation You will know how much your inner strength has become.

Luo Zhenyu: Your shipment volume is still more than two orders of magnitude behind that of the giants. How do you catch up? What is your real trump card?

Luo Yonghao: This is our original The direction is not wrong. This problem occurred due to certain constraints. We do not think that the general direction in the past few years was wrong.

Luo Zhenyu: Can you describe this general direction?

Luo Yonghao: In the next eight to ten years in touch and mobile phone design, ten years is a long enough time in the technology industry In the first stage, within ten years, we will achieve high differentiation and innovation to win the market.

Talking about why the public acceptance is not good, the first R&D, production and supply, six months at night, it is not bad if it is not dead. Some people have insufficient judgment on public acceptance, and we need to achieve a balance in the middle. We don’t think there is a big problem in the general direction. There is another problem. If I went back to five years ago and knew how difficult it was, I would find a team to specialize in rapid monetization, so that the losses of the mobile phone department would become smaller or smoothed out. .

This is a long march, and we will consciously adjust in this direction this year. There will be some layoffs in the second half of this year. If the revenue there can offset the losses on mobile phones, it will be good even if we lose money on mobile phones.

Luo Zhenyu: Without embarrassment, can you assume a situation where you simply transform after a few years because of market uncertainty?

Luo Yonghao: No, the idea is very clear and directional. The things are very clear and have not wavered. In our era, mobile phones and touch devices were the norm, and more than ten years ago, computers were the norm. At that time, computers were made, not TVs. Software and hardware were combined with the most mainstream and largest platforms at that time, and the people you cultivated accumulated knowledge, patents, and funds. Reserves can be used to make online products for the next platform. Without this, the purifiers have been basically sold out for two years. We must make mobile phones. Even if I don’t like mobile phones, I have to make mobile phones. Besides, I like them. Otherwise, the next platform revolution will happen. Nothing happens without me.

Luo Zhenyu: I hope you can elaborate on this logic.

Luo Yonghao: You see, computing platforms refer to computers, mobile phones, tablets, etc. Smart devices are computing platforms that solve a comprehensive problem of yours. Before the spread of smartphones, they were all computers, just desktops. It’s a question of computer or laptop. When personal computers and PCs were most popular, the biggest computing platforms were your desktops and laptops. They just had PCs and microphones. In this era, there are mobile phones, tablets, etc., with touch on the glass. Devices are the computing platforms of this era.

If there are no surprises, the next platform must be glasses, VR glasses. For example, in 12 or 13 years, the next generation platform will be around ten years ago. A company selling air conditioners may come to this table. You make TV If you can't get into it, you are already bigger than China's largest technology company, but this has nothing to do with you. My dream is to build the largest computing platform and participate in or lead the platform revolution. This is my ultimate dream.

The fastest way for me to make money personally is to do a talk show. I sign an annual contract and do the show for six months and take a vacation for six months. However, if a business considers whether I make money or do it to satisfy my dreams and pursuits, If I make money, just make it simple and throw away smart devices and mobile phones. For example, if I make a lot of money and live a comfortable life, the next computing platform has nothing to do with me. Why is it so hard and tiring to make this thing? One generation, glasses can become a competitor in the next generation of computing platforms. It can only be done after the software and hardware for computers, mobile phones, and tablets are completed. I must complete this piece.

Let me give you an example. The smart device iPhone can do it is because it originally made computers and lost to Microsoft in the platform war. It is still a player in the next generation of smart device competition. If you lose, you can't come back if you do other things, such as printers. If you don't have reserves, you need to have talent reserves to control the software and hardware. Even if you don't like it one day, you can't give up.

Luo Zhenyu: Luo Yonghao fans and Hammer fans, do you think they overlap?

Luo Yonghao: The overlap was very high in the early days, but now the overlap is getting less and less. Our market has public opinion monitoring . In the early days, it was because of support, or I bought several and gave them to others.

Today, we have a lot of supporters converted by the product itself, so we often see these things in research reports and daily observations. Some people in our forum are disgusted with why we say this. As you chatted on the phone, you brought up Lao Luo again. He was a product supporter. He was talking about the features of a product. As we chatted, the topic turned to me. This was common in the early days, but now it is rare.

Let me clarify again, the carrier of the fan economy must be something worth about 20 US dollars. This is something that is popular all over the world. Celebrities who make money from fans all sell books and movies. ticket. There are few commercially successful examples of a fan of an idol supporting something that sells for one or two thousand yuan.

Luo Zhenyu: Let’s go back to users. Xiaomi is very careful in managing its users, communities in various places, etc. I observe that you don’t seem to be doing this.

Luo Yonghao: We have organized self-organized hammer friend groups in almost 170 or 180 cities, including foreign cities. Every year at the early stage of product release or the early stage of the press conference, we spontaneously gather in coffee shops and pubs. Organize a party where everyone can communicate together. We are very grateful, and the public relations team will also send some T-shirts and posters later to make this event smoother and establish contact with these companies. We do not operate like Xiaomi. The core reason is the lack of personnel. We have so many spontaneously formed, and the previous marketing team is a good foundation for starting operations. But the reason why we are not doing it now is because of manpower, not for any other reason.

Luo Zhenyu: Luo Yonghao fans and Hammer fans, do you think they overlap?

Luo Yonghao: The overlap was very high in the early days, but now the overlap is getting less and less. Our market has public opinion monitoring . In the early days, it was because of support, or I bought several and gave them to others.

Today, we have a lot of supporters converted by the product itself, so we often see these things in research reports and daily observations. Some people in our forum are disgusted with why we say this. While chatting on the mobile phone, you talked about Lao Luo again. He was a product supporter. He was talking about the features of a product. During the chat, the topic turned to me. This was a lot in the early days, but now it is rare.

Let me clarify again, the carrier of the fan economy must be something worth about 20 US dollars. This is something that is popular all over the world. Celebrities who make money from fans all sell books, CDs, and movies. ticket. There are few commercially successful examples of a fan of an idol supporting something that sells for one or two thousand yuan.

Luo Zhenyu: Let’s go back to users. Xiaomi is very careful in managing its users, communities in various places, etc. I observe that you don’t seem to be doing this.

Luo Yonghao: We have organized self-organized hammer friend groups in almost 170 or 180 cities, including foreign cities. Every year at the early stage of product release or the early stage of the press conference, we spontaneously gather in coffee shops and pubs. Organize a party where everyone can communicate together. We are very grateful, and the public relations team will also send some T-shirts and posters later to make this event smoother and establish contact with these companies. We don't operate like Xiaomi. The core reason is the lack of personnel. We have so many spontaneously formed. The previous marketing team started operating is a good foundation. But the reason why we are not doing it now is because of manpower, not for any other reason.

Luo Zhenyu: If we could go back 20 years, would you work for a boss like you?

Luo Yonghao: After working for a few years, I felt that after I finished my studies, I would stay away.

Luo Zhenyu: Why?

Luo Yonghao: I also have a bad temper. It is very difficult for two bad tempers to come together.

Luo Zhenyu: You don’t have much time to build company culture.

Luo Yonghao: In the past, the biggest problem was to promote a unified ideological understanding and staged goals for this year to the whole company. I had a serious psychological shadow about speaking on stage, which resulted in a lot of things that should be done not done.

Team building has always been something we have not done well. A large number of senior executives came from large manufacturing companies. We have made a change. In the original company, they were engineering and technical personnel, and their skills were often outdated. Damn it, everyone drinks a lot to achieve a goal. I personally hate drinking. I didn’t go there before. They ridiculed me and said that team building is a waste if you don’t drink. You must drink. Now we do team building and sit together to talk about something. If you understand, apologize and say something that can enhance mutual understanding.

Once you have this kind of team building and form an atmosphere of mutual understanding, the team can continue to build relatively. In the past, it was because of personal dislike. I never do this when drinking. After many other executives came and had to drink, I had to drink. Every time I drank, the effect was far beyond imagination. Basically all my male colleagues drank. I was diagnosed with fatty liver disease a year ago, or else Just drink it after losing weight.

Luo Zhenyu: In any outstanding group, there are always a majority of idiots. Are the majority of idiots in your company?

Luo Yonghao: To this day, I still believe that 20% of excellent groups are excellent. With 80% of the people, after I started a business today, whether it is from my experience in running a business In terms of legitimate needs, even when there is no attack of aggressive personality, everyone thinks that 20% is relatively outstanding, and 80% is relatively not so outstanding. This is not my opinion, but this is how human society is distributed. 20% of any group Excellent people drive 80% of the less outstanding people to move forward.

Luo Zhenyu: Do you mind skip-level reporting and skip-level work assignments in the company?

Luo Yonghao: It is common for the departments I lead to have cross-level reports because my work is not focused. For example, I go out to talk to investors and come back at 11 o'clock after the discussion, and then go back to software products at 11 o'clock. There was someone in the department who was working overtime. If I had anything to do, I assigned him a task directly, and then asked him to tell me directly. I also told the project manager to tell his supervisor that if this happens, it is normal to report directly to him and assign tasks.

My supervisors want to avoid this. He is in the office 24 hours a day, because I don’t know when I will be in the office. When I am in the office, the supervisor is not there, but his subordinates are. This is normal and happens from time to time. No It might be possible to eliminate this entirely.

In principle, we pay special attention to the reports of new middle-level or senior-level employees who skip their level when joining the company. In a sense, the senior people in the company also have the obligation to accompany me, if he has the spirit of ownership to accompany me and supervise It is very legitimate for a new supervisor to take advantage of his position during the probationary period. Once the probationary period is over and there are no problems, there is basically no problem of jumping up and down in other departments, rarely or almost never.

Luo Zhenyu: Have any employees reported the situation beyond the level, especially the senior employees?

Luo Yonghao: Of course, this is the wealth of our company. In an enterprise, there is an obvious problem in China. I was born in 1972. When I was growing up, there was a problem in this country. The teachers were all people with questionable values. They often encouraged students to make small reports. We all grew up like this when we were young. Of course, even if the teacher educates us in this way and provides unhealthy education, some students are sober and think that snitching is a shameful thing. However, after the overall social moral concept has improved, China today has a reverse problem. The reverse problem is that many people cannot distinguish the difference between reporting problems normally and making small reports.

I once forwarded in WeChat Moments how schools in the United States educate primary and secondary school students, especially how primary school students distinguish between snitching and reporting problems. For example, in a self-study class in a classroom, a bad boy ruined the classroom. The glass was deliberately broken. This means that if the weather is cold and he breaks the glass, the child at the window will have to endure a cold before the glass is repaired, or there will be problems in the entire classroom. This is a violation of public property. Destruction, if any child reports this to his teachers and children, this is not a snitch, this is a black sheep. We have to solve the problem. Everyone has an obligation to care about this group.

One student said that their female teacher was particularly ugly, fat, etc. because the teacher was particularly ugly. When this happened, another student went to the teacher to report the situation. This is 100% scorn. Reporting, that person does not harm any team, letting the teacher know will make him unhappy, and suing him will directly result in the child not liking the child. This is a typical snitch, and you can distinguish this.

I myself have noticed a problem among young boys and girls in China. Even if they feel that there is a serious problem with their immediate boss, they will resign until they can no longer bear it. When they resign, they may not I told another colleague, and then another colleague, and finally it reached my ears. I went to him and asked him why he had to report this situation at that time, but he endured it for half a year and finally resigned. Usually it was me. If it's not appropriate, I'll leave, and I can't report it to my immediate boss. In fact, from what he learned afterwards, those issues that were classified as tabloiding, he considered them to be snitching. This made me scratch my head.

My veteran colleagues in the early stages of entrepreneurship are in very good health. Being a supervisor can’t help me much here. But even if I’m not a supervisor, I still have a very strong sense of ownership. They think they can follow me. Jiangshan has come to this day, so whether he sees ordinary employees or management in the company, if he has something that he doesn't understand, he directly comes to me and tells me, and he still curses and says, "This is a very valuable asset to me, and I won't talk about arrangements." A bunch of agents went to investigate the situation. Based on their own mentality towards the company's owners, these people are actually the company's veteran heroes. Based on these reports to me, I couldn't ask for more. They like to write some weird things in the company group or on WeChat and Weibo. Thinking that I did not do a good job, it is a weird thing. In principle, newcomers dare not say it. The old people will say it. When I said it, I found that he said it wrong, so I explained it and he apologized. If he didn't say it wrong, it was because we wanted to I will go to him to apologize for my inconsideration, and he will accept it. That is basically the case. I hope that such people in the company are better people. This is a very valuable asset.

Luo Zhenyu: I am asking a question to a newbie in the workplace. How does a newbie in the workplace get a strong entrepreneurial boss?

Luo Yonghao: Just have a meeting together to seize that point in time and go do it. It's very legitimate to show your best side, and I'm happy to see this. If you just perform well, I think it's good. If you find out later that it doesn't work, you will still go on. It doesn't matter. I think I want it. You hope to give them some advice. , that’s what I mean.

Luo Zhenyu: What is the most important thing for a person to find in the workplace?

Luo Yonghao: It is definitely the business level. If the business level has always been very good, but the development is not ideal, there may be problems with the company. , if there is no problem, you can leave.