Wang: Since 1990s, returning to tradition has become the mainstream of Chinese painting. How to treat this phenomenon?
Liu: This question is not easy to talk about, and it is also very complicated. Difficult and complicated can also be said to be the current academic phenomenon. We are always willing to artificially block a smooth and accessible artistic trajectory, making it rigid and embarrassing. Not to mention from a distance, our attitude towards national traditions has only been around for nearly a hundred years, and we have not always followed and respected it. Therefore, this return to tradition is only for something, and it is useless for art not to change this habit. Traditional painting is actually a kind of concrete existence. Whether it is inheritance or negation, it has no effect on tradition, but it has taken many detours to the present. What should we return to when we return to tradition? Is it technology, schema, or realm regression? On the other hand, can spirit and character return? Can the realm be used to reproduce? If not, what is the significance of schema regression? In my opinion, tradition has become the spiritual symbol and model standard of contemporary painters. The role and significance of tradition for the contemporary era is to warn future generations to let go of their hands and feet, make bold breakthroughs, face the truth and create works that conform to this era. Therefore, I think that the current false traditional schema is not promoting tradition, but hurting the advantages of tradition. It is believed that traditional painting is rigid, patterned and not enterprising.
Wang: Tradition is not formed by plagiarism and repetition, but by wisdom and creation.
Liu: Only from the perspective of techniques and patterns, the current traditional level can only reach a relative level. Relatively speaking, it can't be compared with traditional art, but there are good and bad in contemporary art. This level of skill is far from the traditional standard of pursuing perfection and high skill. There is no denying that there is an insurmountable gap between contemporary painters and traditional painters in techniques, which is the traditional foundation, and this foundation can not be obtained by training for several years.
Wang: This trend of returning to tradition and narrow national sentiment are also important factors. Since the 20th century, due to factors other than art, we have taken a totally negative attitude towards tradition and lost too many excellent traditions. Now that the national economy and comprehensive strength have come up and our status has improved, we have begun to attach importance to tradition again, but this "return" is very similar to the thinking during the Cultural Revolution-either advanced or backward, traditional or modern, this simple binary opposition.
Liu: That's true. The national sentiment you just mentioned is very harmful to the development of art, especially Chinese painting, and it also gives some people an excuse to emphasize that national culture is always justified. However, respecting national traditions and independent innovation are never contradictory. No nation in the world takes imitation culture as its cultural subject, including imitation of its own culture. A healthy cultural environment not only needs every practitioner to maintain and create, but also needs the attitude and minimum dignity shown when promoting this culture.
Wang: How do you educate your students?
Liu: My requirements for students are relatively relaxed. When I say relaxed, I mean creating a positive painting environment for students. As for teaching, I mainly teach from three aspects. One is to establish their own basic skills, so that students can choose the basic scope according to their own characteristics, interests and advantages, which can also be said to focus on basic skills learning. The second is to advocate the basic training of expression, which is more important than the basic training of techniques to some extent. These two aspects can not be separated, so that expression can drive skills, skills can be meaningful, and students can understand that skills are an application process rather than a procedural method. Third, the curriculum, for example, I have added some courses such as "abstract training of body", "analysis of traditional techniques" and "ink and wash still life" as basic teaching contents.
Wang: What do you think of art criticism?
Liu: Art criticism is very important for painting art, which can make painting art on the right track and is of great value to a great extent. In fact, art not only needs theories and critics, but also other industries should attach importance to it, so that our cause will gradually be standardized and specialized. The problem is that this kind of industry theory and criticism can really promote the development of a cause on a benign track, which is meaningful. Take the United States as an example, it can be without history, but it can never be without contemporary cultural theory as the basis of behavior, which is reflected in all walks of life. In contrast, we lack this kind of consciousness and ability, and we are powerless to what has changed in front of us, and we are not so firm and clear when arguing about traditional issues. It can be seen that creation and establishment are more difficult than imitation and inheritance. In addition, too many problems set by oneself are also one of the factors restricting development, such as Chinese and western problems, traditional problems, innovation problems, market problems and so on. These problems should not be problems. We will spend decades or even hundreds of years discussing, arguing and enjoying. So sometimes I wonder whether there is a problem of the integration of Chinese and western painting circles and painters in the west, whether there is a necessary discussion on tradition, and whether there are similar institutional slogans such as inheritance, return and artistic innovation. Without these guiding theories and controversial issues, how can they draw? On the contrary, we have repeatedly advocated going to the world, and what is the point of synchronous dialogue with the world. Therefore, I think that the best way for critics and painters to change "right and wrong" is to establish contemporary values, bring back theories and paintings to him, and get the "standard" and "right to speak" of contemporary art like enterprises. This is the real value. Things are meaningless by a traditional standard. After all, art, as a culture, is not just a matter of stealing pleasure.
Chen: How did you start painting Chinese paintings?
Liu: I began to draw black and white paintings when I was in high school. This is also a form of ink and painting, illustration. When I arrived at the university, I haven't officially painted on rice paper with a brush. I used meticulous painting, probably 1980.
Wang: What are the more important works in this period? Liu: When I was in the third year of college, I drew a picture of Heart Tide, which showed Peng's content. This painting participated in the second national youth art exhibition.
Wang: Is that the ongoing China Youth Art Exhibition?
Liu: Maybe. 1980 was exhibited in China Art Museum, and our school organized us to see this exhibition. 198 1 In the second half of the year, we started our graduation project. I drew a relatively large painting called "Hometown". 1983 made two films, Selling Charcoal Weng and Li Kui jy Visiting Mother, for the propositional painting competition held by the Chinese Painting Research Institute at that time. In our impression, the exhibition was not completed, but the paintings were never returned after being selected. In the same year, I drew another painting, Blood of the Boxer Rebellion.
Wang: These works, Heart Tide and Hometown, are not far from some realistic ink paintings at that time in terms of creative ideas. Their composition is complete and has a certain plot. What really shocked me was a batch of avatars and human bodies you created in the mid-1980s.
Liu: 1985 began to draw some pure ink heads. At that time, the art world was very active, and I wanted to try some performances myself. The painted heads are all black, and the edges are cut like scissors, which is very enjoyable. At 1989, I drew a batch of human bodies with teeth exposed, and the names were particularly strange. There is a picture of a man moving like a dog, with his hands on the ground and hard plants on the ground. The name is "there is no such person". There are also some pictures in which people's actions are like a physiological reaction. Later, a friend called me sexually depressed (laughs). At that time, I painted these human bodies because I felt more natural. From the more formal creation in the past to painting the head and human body, I feel closer to the state of self-expression. Wang: When did ink still life painting begin? How to treat painting still life with ink?
Liu: 1995 I took part in marking an adult exam. I saw some candidates' paintings, but I didn't understand the sketch relationship at all, but it was particularly interesting. They face a jar, see black painting black, see white painting white, especially authentic, dare to paint, very tasty. When marking, we joked that these paintings were "masterpieces". But they can't go to school, and once they learn, they can't draw such feelings. Later, I took some paper myself, and now it's all illegible. I still have it. I wanted to draw a batch of still life at that time. At first, I used thick ink and white powder. This is my first time to use advertising color. Dust the white powder with mica. Mica is very bright Wipe it with a cloth when it is dry, just like metal. But the white powder is sticky and the color is too strong. When it dries, it will fall off, and the painting will be meaningless. Later, instead of using white powder, I drew a series of paintings with pure ink, some of which were painted many times. 1995 Participated in the exhibition "Tension and Expression of Ink and Wash". He exhibited two still lifes for the first time, and participated in Shanghai Ink and Wash Biennale and Shenzhen International Ink and Wash Biennale the following year. All the works I choose are still lifes. Later, there were some important exhibitions, all of which were on display.
Sun: Your paintings are very modern, and at the same time they contain profound traditional cultural spirit. Your works are interesting, charming and fashionable. It can be said that your work is very famous in the painting world. After more than 30 years of artistic practice, you must have rich and unique artistic experience. Would you please talk about it?
Liu: Thank you for your compliment. I feel ashamed. In the process of art purgatory, ups and downs, as Zen says, are like drinking water, knowing oneself in cold and warm. The problem of artistic experience you mentioned just now is a very extensive one. Can you be more specific? Sun: The technical factor in painting is an unavoidable problem for artists, and it is also a problem that they have to face. It can be said that without the technology in painting, there is no artistry in painting. Please talk about this problem.
Liu: The technicality in art is a sign of artistic maturity, and Chinese painting is an art of ink painting. Grasping the technicality of ink painting is one of the signs to judge whether an artist's artistic life is mature or not, and it is also one of the important signs to determine his artistic taste. The dots, lines and blocks created by the painter with ink and wash, as well as the blank outside the dotted line and block, are smart and the inner breath is gradually drifting away, which is also the vitality of a work. In this sense, the technical level determines the vitality of the work. From the development of art history, we can also see that it is a process in which technical factors are constantly strengthened. There is a similar situation in literature and art, for example, five-character poetry is the most common poetic style. From the original folk songs of Han Yuefu, Yuefu officials collected them in the countryside and sorted them out by the writers, which became Yuefu folk songs seen today. Among them, the literati treated it technically, making it tend to be elegant. Later, after Cao Zhi's transformation, the five-character poem has the aesthetic characteristics of melody in form. Later, due to the influence of the translation and reading of Buddhist scriptures, the influence of Shen Yue's four tones and eight diseases in melody, and the finalized five-character poems in the Shen Quan period of Tang Dynasty and the Song Dynasty, all played a decisive role in the finalization of the five-character poems. What these people do is just to increase the technical content in the form of five-character poems. Music art has a similar situation. Folk tunes have been processed by literati, making them become elegant from vulgarity, from folk to scholar-bureaucrat class and even court. Palace-style poems in the Southern Dynasties came from the folk to the palace, and the palace poems were used for singing at that time. It can be seen that the processing and arrangement of literati and the strengthening of technical factors played a key role. Far from the point, technology can be said to be one of the core contents of all arts. On the one hand, the artistic taste depends on the author's cultural accomplishment; On the other hand, it can be said that what is more important is the author's free grasp of technology on the basis of cultural literacy.
Chen: When did you transfer to Beijing? What are the representative works after coming to Beijing? Liu: March 2000. My satisfactory job in recent years is to watch the American election.
Wang: This year, at the exhibition commemorating the 60th anniversary of the victory of the Anti-Japanese War in China Painting Academy, you drew "Beating Japanese devils", which is a very interesting painting.
Liu: To tell the truth, that painting smacks of ridicule. The idea at that time was that I had never participated in the Anti-Japanese War, so I became addicted after painting for more than a dozen times. I won't choose the idea that guerrillas are going to fight in green tents, which makes me feel meaningless. If I want to draw, I will draw people all over the mountain, hitting devils, grenades flying in the air and exploding on devils' heads, so that I can feel satisfied. Chen: What are your thoughts on creation recently?
Liu: I think more about the overall relationship between personal creation and our time. This problem sounds too big, but it is too closely related to the development of contemporary art, including personal creation. I once told a friend that the current situation of Chinese painting, which painter paints well and which one paints poorly, is meaningless. Contemporary Chinese painting creation is on one level, which distinguishes the level of painters. Why do you say that? Because in each era, whether art can develop to an advanced stage is not decided by one painter or several painters. They may have some influence, but the artistic spirit and artistic height of an era are directly related to the overall development of society. Why are paintings in the Tang Dynasty good? It is not because later generations failed to reach the craft of the Tang Dynasty, but because the economic development and cultural development of the Tang Dynasty reached the peak. The so-called "spirit of the prosperous Tang Dynasty" is embodied in all fields and levels of society, and even permeates people's expressions and expressions. Just like a face, the face of the Tang Dynasty is full and rich, which is a heritage, and there is no such heritage in any era after the Tang Dynasty.
Wang: Actually, it was the same in Europe from the end of A.D. 19 to the beginning of the 20th century. Impressionism is not only a revolution in painting techniques, but also not entirely due to the invention of photography technology. It is the lifestyle and values of the middle class that provide fertile and mature soil for Impressionism. In other words, when impressionism was needed in that era, Monet stood up. If it was only the reform of painting itself, Impressionism would not have such a great influence.
Liu: That's right. I think China's paintings are still in the process of running-in and searching, and have not yet entered a mature stage. For example, Chinese painting and the combination of Chinese and western cultures have been discussed for a hundred years, and this problem has not been well solved. Why? Because our era is in a running-in and transition period, politics is running-in, economy is running-in, and people's moral standards are also looking for and running-in. In such a social period of running-in and transformation, there are too many uncoordinated things in us, so how can painting art mature? I think when art reaches an advanced stage, it is very smooth and coherent. Just like classical art, its painting materials and methods have a standard in all aspects. It may take decades for our society to become formal and highly prosperous, and art will enter a mature stage. At this stage, all artists are looking for an epoch-making thing at one level. Just like Monet of impressionism, he opened a new era, but as you said, Monet's appearance was not isolated and accidental, but an inevitable choice for the development of the times.
Wang: In an era, a group of people should pay attention to this issue and form an atmosphere of exploration. In this trend, perhaps a painter first touched a new artistic starting point and opened a door. Suppose Monet painted such a picture during the Renaissance, he would become another kind, and the Renaissance would not choose Monet. Monet came into being when artists of an era were looking for "impressionism". Liu: Right. The problem now is that this team is not getting bigger, but getting smaller. Including the experimental group of modern ink painting in the 1980s, their passion will be slowly affected with their age, which is terrible.
Wang: It is not enough to draw a few good paintings by a few good painters.
Liu: Not enough. Now we are all in a shell. This "shell" is so thick that many people are trying to break through it. In this process, it doesn't matter that you are better than me. Only when everyone realizes this problem and destroys the original heavy "shell" from all directions can individual artists gradually show their significance and produce epoch-making figures such as Monet and Cezanne. Nowadays, many controversial issues are actually breaking a "shell", and no painter jumps out. Let's say modern ink painting. What is modern? A little more abstract in form, with composition and new schema is modern ink painting? Absolutely not. Modern ink painting is definitely not a matter of form. If it is a matter of form, it will be easy. I think "modernity" is a general state of the times, and it must be synchronized from social form and lifestyle to values and national spirit. Modern art is only a reflection of the overall "spirit of the times" in art. It doesn't matter whether you use ink, images, devices or other materials, and it doesn't matter what form you use. It is important to realize this in concept. It must be recognized that it is not enough to just mend and be satisfied with a small change in a painting. In the process of modernization of the whole society, there must be modern art that adapts to the social process, and this pursuit should become the knowledge of artists. But now I can't see this, I'm pessimistic. This is a question that I have been thinking about a lot in recent years. I still have many specific ideas about how to draw next, but this problem can't be discussed in detail.
Chen: What do you think of copying and sketching?
Liu: From the perspective of Chinese painting teaching, copying and sketching are of course important. But the crux of the problem is that our whole teaching system must first have a successful model. Of course, it doesn't mean that everyone has to be an artist to come here, which is unrealistic. But from the direction of university teaching, we must first have the conditions to train artists. Including curriculum, teaching structure, teaching methods, time arrangement, teaching materials and hardware. First of all, according to this model, it is at least possible for students to become artists. The problem at present is that our teaching mode itself is not successful. What we are doing is an artistic undertaking, which is to create a peak like the ancient tradition for future generations. As a national art, is it possible for Chinese painting to reach an advanced stage? These problems, first of all, should be considered in teaching, and then through continuous exploration, which is contradictory. When art develops to an advanced stage, all the factors that make up art, including painting and materials, are highly coordinated. Realism in western painting is developed on the basis of chromatics, anatomy and deconstruction, which is consistent with its materials and expression methods. Chinese painting is mainly based on line modeling. How to be realistic? What we call realistic ink painting can only be comfortable, with realistic faces, ink-splashing clothes and freehand brushwork. We're used to it. It feels good. It feels good. But strictly speaking, the following detailed descriptions of strokes, splashing ink and faces are contradictory and disharmonious in artistic language. How to coordinate? This is something we haven't run in for a hundred years. Because we haven't established a mature standard. /kloc-for 0/00 years, we have not found a successful thing in the combination of Chinese and western. Now we have no choice but to emphasize tradition and reproduction. I think for a painter, inheriting and returning to tradition is purely a personal act. For example, Picasso studied African art and Matisse borrowed Japanese painting. You like tradition and play with pen and ink, which is ok. But it doesn't mean that returning to tradition is the only direction of Chinese painting. A painter can draw a good picture if he has no feeling for pen and ink, and his pen and ink are not good. I think our nation likes to go to extremes too much. Anti-tradition means that tradition is useless; It is ridiculous to emphasize the return to tradition now, and everyone is painting those paintings of the ancients.
Chen: Your ink figure painting is representative in modern ink painting. How is modernity reflected in your paintings?
Liu: Personally, I think a painter is a painter first. It doesn't matter whether it is "modern". Painting is only a superficial technology, and the rest should be endowed by the times and inherited by tradition. Therefore, different times will have different objects of expression and aesthetic feelings. From a deeper perspective, this art, which is accompanied by human beings, has its consistent constancy and inheritance, that is, the essence of painting-materializing the painter's heart. On the surface, the works of each era have the brand of each era, that's all.
Chen: Do you think it is possible to develop ink figure painting? Liu: Of course. I have repeatedly thought that painting is people-oriented, and we are facing contemporary things. It is bound to have its limitations to express the contemporary with traditional techniques and materials of Chinese painting, so Chinese painting may have more space. I think the current creative mode is still the general creative mode, which is the homework creation formed by our long-term teaching mode. Only practice is to draw a person and sketch a person. When creating, it becomes a list of two people, three people or a group of people, and a day is added to the background. This is creation. Of course, not all creations are like this, but basically they have not got rid of this mode, that is, the stage appearance mode. As soon as the characters appear, they take an action, and the sense of stage is too strong to see the vitality of the characters. This is the creative mode. Painters pay attention to pen and ink and modeling, not the influence of the characters themselves. This is what we call realism.
Chen: Talk about your views on some great painters in the last hundred years. Liu: In terms of figure painting, I think ginger is a peak in technology. In addition, he also drew a map of refugees during the war. I don't think the figure painter has surpassed him so far. From modeling, pen and ink, to generalization ability, Jiang's paintings have no redundant language, and the state between the characters is very right. Future generations' paintings will be broken, including myself. Lin Fengmian is a typical example of the combination of Chinese and western. I think he is free and easy inside and has a lot of free space. Feel free and in place from painting, relax in all aspects, and have a style of painting.
Chen: What do you think of the art market?
Liu: I think the art market has gone bad in the past two years. Most collectors are eager for quick success and instant benefit, which is terrible. This may be a process, and the art market will gradually become rational. Chen: Do you care about your position in the history of art?
Liu: I haven't thought too much. When I was in Hebei Normal University in the 1990s, the county cultural center asked me for information. My colleagues and I joked that it would be nice to be included in the county annals, even if it was in history. Whether a painter can stay in history is not up to individuals. This thing is even more difficult than the market (laughs).
Chen: Do professionals and non-professionals have the same understanding of your work? What are your expectations? Liu: Reading and appreciation are two indispensable links in creation. I respect the audience, and I think this respect is equal. So on the one hand, I should grasp my own aesthetic experience and show it. On the other hand, in my artistic pursuit, I try to simplify-I provide an aesthetic schema, simplicity and calmness are the mentality, and exclusion of strangeness is the principle.