Umberto Eco is the most famous scholar and writer in contemporary Europe. "Cambridge History of Italian Literature" hailed Umberto Eco (1932-) as the most dazzling Italian writer in the second half of the 20th century, and praised his "mediator" and "synthesizer" throughout his career 'consciousness". Eco's world is vast and multifaceted. In addition to essays, essays, and novels, there are also a large number of papers, treatises, and edited volumes. Researchers roughly divide it into 52 categories in 8 categories, including medieval theological studies, aesthetic studies, literary studies, and popular studies. Cultural studies, semiotic studies, hermeneutic studies, etc. What is most eye-catching about Eco is his ability to easily travel between multiple worlds, and his spirit of being neither conservative nor excessive. It is this ability and spirit that makes him interested in the most scholastic Thomas Aquinas and the most modern James Joyce; he both emphasizes the power of interpretation and worries about the harm of over-interpretation; It can not only make the work a best-seller with tens of millions of copies sold around the world, but also attract researchers to write thousands of papers and monographs about it. Umberto Eco was born in Alessandria, Italy in 1932. Professor of Semiotics at the University of Bologna, lives in Milan, and heads VS magazine. Eco is a philosopher, historian, literary critic and aesthetician in many capacities, and is the world's most well-known authority on semiotic linguistics. His academic research ranges from St. Thomas Aquinas to James Joyce and even Superman, and his knowledge is extremely profound. He has a personal collection of more than 30,000 volumes and has published more than ten important academic works, the most famous of which is "The Role of the Reader: A Discussion on Token Linguistics". March 15, 2007 12:16 "Southern Weekend" reporter Xia Yu

It was cold in Beijing on March 8. Eco was wearing a black hat, a military green woolen windbreaker and a black leather bag. Walking quickly in the cold wind, when the wind blows, the military green windbreaker outlines Eco's tall and steady body. The Chinese female translator who was accompanying him joked that Eco was as cool as the Italian Mafia. Eco laughed loudly in the cold wind, his laughter was strong and full of energy.

Before starting the interview, the reporter placed the seven Chinese translations of Eco’s books that he carried with him between the armrests of the sofa opposite Eco. Eco was very happy to see the books with different bindings and appearances, and he opened them one by one. Eco carries a "palm treasure" calculator with him and a stack of densely filled-in forms. Eco said that these tables record the different languages ????of Eco's works that he can see in various countries. Many of them are pirated copies. Once they are discovered, they will be recorded.

“I want to take away these books. I have never seen many of them myself.”

Reporter: Do you get angry when you encounter pirated books? How do you usually deal with theft of books?

Eco: I don’t know myself (how many books have been pirated), maybe a lot. I am a liberal. If it is for educational purposes, for young people or students, just use it. I will not pursue the copyright. But I still hope that the person who published my book can contact me.

I was very happy when a Japanese translator came to Italy to communicate with me. He asked a lot of questions and asked me to explain to him what certain words meant. Even though I didn’t speak Japanese, I still Very happy. I don’t know many languages, such as Russian and Hungarian, but many of these translators have communicated with me, and I am very happy. Unfortunately, Chinese translators have not yet had such communication with me. Maybe there were no international conventions in the past and communication could not be carried out according to international practices, but now there are so many ways of communication, and I hope Chinese translators can also communicate with me.

Reporter: There are probably two types of writers in the world, one is writers like Calvino, and the other is writers like Marquez. The former is more concerned with literary form or stylistic experimentation, while the latter is more concerned with literary form or stylistic experimentation. Pay attention to real life and social justice affairs. Which writer do you think is more important and valuable?

Eco: I don’t think they are very different. Calvino's first novel is actually more about politics and war. He was very active in politics. His last book was purely literary, but I don't think this kind of pure literature has no significance to reality.

There are many comments saying that some of the themes of my novels have nothing to do with reality. Some people say that "The Name of the Rose" is a historical novel because I wrote about the Middle Ages, but I used a historical theme to reflect the reality of Italy - this is my personal opinion.

Reporter: There is a saying in mainland China that “literature is dead.” You have experienced half a century of writing and have understood various literary trends around the world. What do you think of the saying “literature is dead”?

Eco: I am 75 years old this year. In the past 60 years, such statements have never stopped. Sometimes they say "literature is dead", and sometimes they say "novel is dead". The even crazier statement is "Books are dead", but in fact, I am still reading and writing. I think that's a very stupid statement.

Reporter: The emergence of the Internet still has an impact on literature. It is also true that the existence of the Internet challenges traditional reading methods. What do you think about the Internet, and does it have an impact on your writing?

Eco: Just like the arrival of airplanes does not mean that cars are dead, the impact of the Internet on reading should also be divided into two categories: the impact on scholars like me and the impact on ordinary people. , I think there is a difference. Just like people watching TV, many people have actually become slaves to TV, and many people watch TV like idiots. As a scholar, or as a scholarly writer, I use the Internet rather than being used by the Internet. I regard the Internet as a tool to obtain information. Even a large number of my books are purchased by readers through the Internet. The Internet has promoted the circulation of books. In the past, books were sold through bookstores, but now they can be ordered through online bookstores. However, this is completely different from teenagers playing video games, playing online games, and adults' pornographic entertainment. Many people use the Internet - they are not looking for a woman to have sex in real life, they use the machine as a sex object to satisfy a kind of erotic stimulation. The Internet makes some people completely fall victim to bad information, but it is a very good tool for other people, and the Internet is a good tool for me. "The biggest concern is how to continue to live"

Reporter: You have many identities. If you were asked to introduce yourself, what would you say? In addition to saying that you are a novelist, a philosopher and an esthetician, another word is "public intellectual". What kind of public intellectual are you?

Eco: A university professor who also writes novels on Saturdays and Sundays; or it can also be said that I am a writer who teaches in universities from Monday to Friday. As for public intellectuals, I have a column in a state newspaper where I write about various issues. For example, last week I wrote about the Italian elections. I have published several books, including all this journalistic commentary until 2005. This book has been published in other languages, and the English version will be published in a few months. Also, for example, at today's meeting, I also made a speech to express my views on the war. In other articles, I will also make my own comments and criticisms on issues in the civil and political fields. .

Reporter: What issue are you most concerned about right now?

Eco: The biggest concern is how to continue to live, because I am already very old. In 2001, I had my only grandson, and I have always been concerned about this child's growth. The reason I care so much about this child is because I think the environment this child will live in in the future will be difficult, because the world is now facing ecological crises and other problems. As I grow older, I become more and more pessimistic.

Reporter: I am surprised that you are pessimistic. Reading your book and listening to your speech today, your expressions and thoughts are powerful.

Eco: The media always places too much hope on intellectuals. In fact, so far I think intellectuals are powerless against many things. It’s like the house is on fire and you have a book of poetry in hand. , but this collection of poems is of no use to you at all. If you want to put out a fire, you need to find water or firefighters. Poems may be of use to you later.

For the whole world - there are many intellectuals all over the world, for them, the possible situation is that houses in many places are on fire, but they can still hide in their own houses that are not on fire and read poetry books.

Reporter: You have allowed us to see changes in the spirit of intellectuals. Intellectuals in the past did not seem to be like this. For example, in the 1950s and 1960s, your contemporaries like Sartre, Camus, Roland... Barthes, and Derrida in the 1990s, when society lost justice, they would take to the streets to express their voices of protest.

Eco: It was not that Sartre went to the streets to demonstrate on his own, but that there were already people demonstrating there. Without these people, no matter how famous Sartre was, there was nothing he could do personally. You should ask why not so many people, ordinary people, took to the streets to demonstrate, not why there were no intellectuals to take to the streets to demonstrate.

Reporter: Can you answer this question?

Eco: Don’t confuse the actions of intellectuals with the actions of citizens. Sartre went to the demonstration as a citizen, not as an intellectual. As an intellectual, what he does is to write books and guide the future path and direction for society and the people. But as a citizen, he has the right to participate in any political activities. For example, someone writes a petition to petition the government about environmental pollution. If I sign, then my signature is first of all as a citizen, not As an intellectual, others only know that I am an intellectual when they find out that I have signed my name. So in the Italian elections, I was very active because I was a citizen. "Who can see the world clearly?"

Reporter: People familiar with your first trip to China clearly remember that you once lamented that "China has no cities." Why did you say that? Can you still remember the scene at that time? After returning to China more than ten years ago, has your impression of China changed?

Eco: I can’t say such words as “China has no decent cities”. Professor Alan Bate may have said this, because Alan lost his luggage in China. This was the second time he lost his luggage. The first time was in India. Maybe it was because he was very anxious after losing his luggage and said this. If so, it is unlikely that I would say such a thing. When I first came to China, my feelings were very complicated. I went to many places, first to Hong Kong, Guangdong, Beijing, Xi'an, Urumqi, and then back to Hong Kong and Macau, so the itinerary was very complicated, and I also It’s hard to sum it up in very short words. I think China left a deep impression on me in many ways. To my surprise, when I arrived in Beijing, I felt like I was in Los Angeles. I can only tell you my first impression of China, because the second time I only met reporters and no other people.

Reporter: This time you went to Beijing for "governance" Some scholars discussed your speech, and some believed that your speech actually supported war. Others believed that at least you believed that postmodern war was inferior to classical war, and that classical war was better.

Eco: My speech is just to say that war has not disappeared. Up to now, it is impossible to eliminate war. If someone has other ideas because of this, they are all wrong. I just made an analysis of the war situation. I am not supporting the war at all. Because I don’t think it’s true that war creates a new equilibrium. War is likely to lead to new imbalances. Now it seems that the war has not disappeared but is more crazy than before. Bombs are dropped to combat terrorism, but the places where the bombs are dropped are not at all the places where terrorists are hiding.

Reporter: You have a book called "Little Notes", and the Chinese translation is called "Misreading". In your life, do you often experience "misreading"?

Eco: This is the name of the book, but it depends on how you understand the word. Misreading is common for me. I spent an hour this morning saying that I was against the war, but it was misinterpreted as being in favor of the war. If I write a philosophical book and I write something like this and someone else says it is something else, I must say "no" immediately.

But when it comes to simple issues, such as the two misunderstandings just now, whether in favor of war or saying that China has no cities, it doesn't matter. I am not willing to defend myself.

If I write novels or philosophy and others misunderstand my original intention, there are usually two possibilities: I don’t think so, but you have the right to think so. My original intention is to say that I don’t want to tell others how you should understand me, or that you should understand me according to my meaning. Maybe you understand it in your own way, and your understanding is deeper than mine. That’s not necessarily true. Sometimes I feel that books are more philosophical and intellectual than their owners. My translator often asks me this, whether I use a word to mean A or B. My original intention is to use A, but when the translator uses B, it is more beautiful or accurate than my original meaning.

Reporter: You have lived in a college for a long time. As a writer, is the university system more conducive to your creation?

Eco: Just like people are fat or thin, writers are also divided into different categories. Some writers write novels, some write poetry, and some write other things. Universities are not necessarily composed of elites. It does not mean that everyone in the university is a genius. Some people may not be as good as ordinary people. I am a university professor, but I am not completely restricted to universities. When I was 50 years old, I had already started writing novels. Some scholars play football or guitar after lectures, but I use it to write novels. Being an academic is my job, but what makes me happy is being a writer. The happiest thing for me in the past 18 years is to sit down and write whenever I have time.

Reporter: In your early years, you worked as a radio editor, and later in your career as a scholar. Your writing is also at two extremes, including complex and grand writing, as well as daily expressions. You are a person who can be complex or simple. people?

Eco: Looking at this issue from multiple angles, I feel that I have been doing the same thing, no matter what kind of job. I have a column that I write every week. I write books and papers. The connection between these is very tight. For example, when writing academic books, many of the arguments actually come from the weekly columns (column text), but I write them in a more understandable and simple way for more people. Many people wonder why there is such a big difference between academic books and columns. For me personally, many arguments are actually written in every weekly column, and they are written in a simpler way. I study knowledge with the eyes of a journalist. For me, journalists, writers and professors are one.

Reporter: You have written so many old and new books and so many thorough words. Can we say that you are a person who clearly understands the world?

Eco: No one can clearly understand the world they live in. No one can see the world clearly. I have never seen anyone who can see the world clearly. If you think someone can see the world clearly, introduce him to me.

(The interview for this article was assisted by Zhao Yuan of Beijing Foreign Studies University and Cui Qiao of Goethe Institute Beijing Branch. We would like to express our gratitude)